Photo by Trent Erwin
Fellow Bereans,
I’ve been thinking a lot lately about repetition. Particularly, what the Bible says about it. Many commenters have attempted to convince me that my views are at best, preferential, and at worst, unbiblical. I received a comment recently from Mark Shane on my review of Elevation Worship’s The Blessing. Here’s what he wrote:
“Sad that we are grading music written to worship our creator and Lord based on our personal preference. Do you think your preference is going to matter in Heaven? “Hey, God, can we do a different song? This one isn’t my fav.”
Sad that there are websites, blogs, and YouTube channels devoted to being critical of others for their expression of worship.
Our humanness is so fickle and petty.”
Ouch.
This comment made me realize that I needed to take a second look at God’s Word to see what it says on the topic.
Psalm 136 is the most repetitious portion of Scripture that I discovered. The same phrase, “His love endures forever”, appears 26 times, alternating between a different point and this phrase. It’s not my place to judge songs that use a similar structure in their music, where they make the same point and build upon it.
Matthew 6:7 is perhaps the most cited passage of Scripture as a prooftext against repetition in music. It’s about repeating the same phrase over and over again to increase our chances that God will hear us. Such people honor God with their lips, but not their hearts (Isaiah 29:13). In terms of Berean Test reviews, I cannot judge the heart of artists based solely on lyrical examination. Neither can I judge lyrics based on misuse (e.g.; recruitment, hypnosis, mantras, etc). Who am I to say that one person is experiencing the Holy Spirit while another is mindlessly singing? After all, only God can judge our hearts (1 Samuel 16:7, 1 Kings 8:39, Psalm 44:21, Psalm 139:1, Proverbs 16:2, Jeremiah 17:10, and Luke 16:15).
There’s also Revelation 4:8, where four living beings say “Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come!” all day and night. Though they aren’t singing, they are repeating the same phrase over and over.
Of all my research, I found this article by Brendan Prout the most convicting. He states,
“So if we’re really being honest, it’s really just a matter of style, not substance. To those who pull the “vain repetition” card on modern music in their preaching: You don’t really have a problem with repetition. You have a problem with style and have a poor or inconsistent understanding of music, and the sooner you admit that, the better off the Church will be for it – as you are persons of influence. Your words before the Church matter. Your words fuel fights and in this case, a bad philosophy of worship based on poor hermeneutics. That horrifies me, and it should horrify you as well.”
Ouch again.
After much prayer and study, I’ve concluded that my commentary on repetition is preferential. Mark Shane is right. Brendan Prout is correct. I judged lyrics based on taste and not the Word of God. Romans 14 tells us not to argue over matters of opinion.
My fellow Bereans, I’m sorry. Please forgive me. I was wrong.
While I still don’t prefer massive repetition in song lyrics, my opinion on the matter should not downgrade my score. Instead, I’ll talk about it as a side note to those whose preference aligns with mine. Please be patient with me as I go through 400+ reviews to adjust my comments and score, as well as my evaluation criteria.
Comments
Carrie
Hello, I stumbled upon this site as I do want the music I use to worship God to be Godly. There is much evidence that excessive repetition is likened to many eastern religions. In certain areas of research it is likened to Reike and another one I forget at the moment. I have at least the one there for others and yourself to look into if anyone so chooses. Excessive repetition can be dangerous actually and may be part of a song that is only partly biblical (Truth)….think Satan with his half truths and how deceptive they are. Just some thoughts.
Aaron Gilmore
While I definitely appreciate your humility, there are many things that the bible does not speak on that we know are dangerous and should not be included in our worship. While the bible is the final rule for faith and life, there should be warranted and warned caution when singing songs with heavy repetition. It is not unspiritual or unscriptural to say that repetition isn’t ideal. While some repetition is good to cement a truth into the mind of the worshipper, over repetition (especially accompanied by musical elements) does the exact opposite, cementing emotion and suspending the mind. Consider the words of Dr. Gordon Alban Adnams:
Modern worshippers experience musical distraction in this and other ways: In all honesty, I would have to say that sometimes I just can’t sustain whatever the words are saying – 1 shouldn’t say can’t, I just don’t. With many repetitions of a phrase or just a single word comes that danger of putting the mind on automatic
pilot and sending it off into the mist somewhere while your emotions are vibrating or bouncing up and down because of the musical elements. You divorce your feelings from the ideas that produce them and then the feelings can become free floating things that ought to be cranked up irrespective of how they come. And so,
by the repetition, it becomes boring. I then just sing the words largely for the feeling. So I now have a split. I’m singing one thing and if I really thought about it I might ask, “Are these words scriptural or true? I’m feeling so good because the tune is just carrying me along.” I’d like the integration. I’d like to tie my good
feelings to thoughts that I thought were good.
(Source: Dr. Adnams, Gordon Alban (2008). The Experience of Congregational Singing: An Ethno-Phenomenological Approach)
In other words, the worship that should be directed toward God is now directed toward pragmatism and seeker-sensitive worship… the worship becomes instead dedicated to the worshipper. On this the bible is very clear. We are to worship in spirit AND in truth. And we aren’t meant to pray or worship in “vain repetitions” (Matthew 6:7). Further, when the worship is no longer about God, it ceases to be true worship.
Daniel M.
I’ve been a worship pastor through several denominations over the last decade, including serving as a choir director in a calvanist church, a worship pastor in a charasmatic church, and everywhere in between. I’ve been in the middle of the “Worship Wars” that are still being faught between those who prefer older or more modern styles of music. This schism has caused rifts and generation gaps in many congregations, as well as lots of unmerciful hearts between brothers and sisters in the faith. It has caused wounds that are still being felt decades later. Similar to your own feeling, I searched the Scriptures to find what wisdom God has revealed to us in what He requires and finds pleasing in acts of worship. Also similarly to your findings, it turns out much of what I thought was “right” was merely preference. I’m so glad to see that not only do your reviews reflect this humbling, but also that He has exhorted you through these other pastors and brothers to recognize prefence for what it is, and that any barrier or unmerciful judgment in your heart towards those with other musical prefence has been removed. Your humble response to such exhortation brings reconciliation and unity in the Body of Christ, which will continue to bear fruit in your ministry. Praise God!
Vince Wright
Daniel,
Thank you for your kind and expressive words! Indeed, praise God!
-Vince Wright
Shane
Thank you for this example of humility and being open to listening to the viewpoint of others. I share your preference against excessive repetition, as I find at times it can take me out of thinking about God and into a grumbling “hurry up” frame of mind. However, I agree that this is a personal preference, not a biblical matter. I think such songs still need careful consideration as to how they fit within congregational worship, but again this will differ from context to context. You have made me consider my own judgement of these songs. Thank you again.
R . Klay
The ancient of days is God. Daniel chapter 7 vs 13 – 14 goes on to describe the Son on Man being given dominion, Glory and a kingdom that all peoples, nations and men of every language might serve Him. The song would have been better served with the title The Son of Man. He died for us so we may live.
Michael Ramsey
Upon research of that revelations scripture you mentioned. Translators of that passage removed 6 holy’s. There was originally 9 holys. I learned that translators removed a lot of words that were repeated.
Luke Walters
What is your source for this info? I’d be curious to read as well.
Michael Ramsey
One of them was a book by Warren W. Wiersbe ( I do not remember the name since i have like 20 books written by him but I do know it was in a bible study series my church did it was the BE series ). The other source was a personal study my parents and I did on the repetition in scripture so we looked at lot of different hardcopy resources and websites i was a few days ( since we obviously were not study the whole day).
Al
Psalm 136 is not like modern day repetitive songs. In psalm 136 the repeated line is the response to the story being told, contrary to contemporary songs where repetition is too often all there is to the song.
Catherine
My thougts exactly. This is a response psalm.
The issue with repetition in modern songs is when there is one line/phrase that is repeated over and over and over, etc. This a method of hypnotism putting the participants in a state to accept whtever they are told. Any discernment they may have had is totally suppressed
Catherine Davis
On repetition:
Personally I’m not always fully there and engaged when worshipping through song, usually due to tiredness, exhaustion, illness, distraction and anxious thoughts. So, while I know that repetition can be a bugbear for some brothers and sisters, I find it can help me move from unintentional self-focus to God-focus by giving me more time to engage mentally, spiritually and emotionally. It also has the added benefit of contemplating and meditating on those words in, perhaps, their different facets if those words lend themselves in such a way. Obviously saccharine, shallow words don’t tend to have this potential so, like another commenter, one is free to sing from the heart and/or mash up other words rather than persist with a disconnect between heart and mind.
The Holy Spirit helps us too and will bring to mind worthy thoughts towards God.
Vince Wright
Thank you everyone for your overwhelming support! I’m deeply moved by your response.
-Vince Wright
Denise Tipton
Excelllent. Your humbleness when criticized, made you search the Word, and examine yourself. Your willingness to go back and apply your learning to your previous writings, might have been tiresome, but wholly worthwhile.
I appreciate your study, as it helps me to do the same. I find I am doing it more often, to examine what I have thought to then go back over His Word, in order to align myself to it, and to be willing to change, or to at least know better why I believe what I do………….. Let us all continue to glorify Him as we strive to become more like Him.
Tony
I haven’t studied this issue, but I do congratulate you on being humble enough to honestly examine your past work and be willing to openly change your stance in such a public and vulnerable way. That’s huge.
Paul
I always thought it was weird to judge a song on repetition, especially when it didn’t seem like a biblical issue, but I pretty much overlooked it since it isn’t something I care about. However, I think it’s cool that you take comments seriously, even if they are unnecessarily spiteful, and I like to see that the evaluation criteria is being updated to reflect your professed dedication to strict biblical accuracy.
Steve Barhydt
Once again, Vince, your humility and willingness to look at yourself and your own opinions critically is a welcome exception to the way most people behave. (Myself included at times.)
May God continue to bless you and grow this wonderful website.
Penny
Oh wow! I’m very moved by your honesty. I look forward to the outcome of your reviews. I, too, am convicted on this and will pray for better understanding of the Word so my actions honor God. Sincere prayers for you while you discern your way through these adjustments. Thank you for the blessing of honesty today. 🙏🏻
ARP
While I tend to agree with you on repetition, I have also come to realize that it’s a preference issue, not a scriptural issue. Thanks for searching out the scriptures, and being humble enough to admit that you have changed your mind.
Tabitha
Thank you for your humility and your willingness to be corrected. Personally, I am with you on not preferring a lot of repetition in songs, but I have to agree that it is a preference. While it bugs me (maybe I got it from my mom — she didn’t like it either), I have seen lots of people using it in worship. When the repetition starts, I usually just stop singing and press in to the Lord with my own spoken, whispered, or thought words. Occasionally I will go ahead and sing my own other words.
Neal Cruco
Thank you for being so open and honest about your change of heart! We Christians aren’t perfect people, and we never will be until Jesus comes again. But you choose to admit when you’re wrong rather than try to save face by holding to a double standard (as John MacArthur did, according to the article that you linked). That’s enough. You are quite fully forgiven.
Worshipismorethansinging
However, you are doing this for corporate worship songs which the body of Christ sing. Many of the churches which use these songs are Charismatic, which get so much of their theology from songs, not being taught from the pulpit.
If there is constant repetition that is not always helpful. If you look at singing in churches since the ‘contemporary christian music scene started’ constant repetition has been criticised. I do not see that to the same extent in older songs
Your reviews are very fair, thoughtful and biblical. They are not, I hate this style / genre like many other sites do.
We need a balance, repetition can be good as you say and back up with scripture. Scripture is a large book. Sometimes we forget about singing the other parts of the bible.
If a person or artist disagrees with what you say, then that is fine. It is good to reflect, which I think you always do.
This site is a blessing. From me and my biblical understanding, I don’t think you need to apologise.
I found this a useful read
https://www.caryalliance.org/to-repeat-or-not-repeat-repeat-repeat-repetition-in-worship/
El T Castro Jr
I agree with everything that has been written and commented on. I appreciate the honesty that you are both trying to display but more importantly try to live out in everything we do (including this website/blog). Authenticity, truth (biblical or absolute, not relative), and consistency should be the mark of every Christian which is what will make us peculiar in this world.
The Berean Test (not just your blog, but emulating the Bereans) is repetitious and about internal and external consistency. This biblical especially with the Word of God as well as all things excellent (which crosses into the secular).
With that said repetition and reinforcement are psychology and a tool of how are mind and therefore outlook are influenced. Repetition itself is neutral like any tool, which means what is being repeated is good bad neutral or mindless is the real issue
I would suggest a repetition penalty, similar to judging in Olympic (gymnastics (0.1 deductions, 0.3, and full point deductions) , or grade of execution in figure skating) or red card yellow card in soccer. Green card could be biblical repetition yellow might be mindless red is dangerous.
Having a separate judging penalty calls attention to the repetition, and that in your preference the degree of egregiousness is the color or number associated with that penalty).
My real name is El Castro but publically ask to be identified as Junior Castro as I am the only Christian in my family who is still in a Christian cult
Edit as needed please
Sarah
Thank you for being humble. Much respect gained.